‘Why are you dismissing this?’ Joe Rogan battles with journalist over whether Epstein was murdered
Podcast host Joe Rogan sparred with journalist Michael Shellenberger over the likelihood that deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in prison during a Tuesday episode of “The Joe Rogan Experience.”
Tova Noel, one of Epstein’s prison guards, searched for information on him on Google just minutes before he was discovered to be deceased and made a strange $5,000 deposit ten days prior to his death, according to Department of Justice records, the New York Post reported on Saturday. Rogan cited the new information on his podcast among other details that made him believe Epstein likely was killed, but Shellenberger was unconvinced, leading to nearly 15 minutes of back-and-forth.
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“Epstein’s brother’s examiner said that he broke his hyoid bone and the hyoid bone is not usually broken in hangings, only in strangulations,” Shellenberger said. “Actually, it is broken in hangings, particularly for older people.”
“But it was broken in three places,” Rogan responded. “And it’s low on his neck.”
Shellenberger dismissed Rogan’s pushback. The host then brought up the revelations in the DOJ documents on Noel, which Shellenberger also dismissed.
“Why are you dismissing — I don’t understand why you’re dismissing this,” Rogan said. Shellenberger denied he was being dismissive, but Rogan doubled down.
“You are, because if you do have a guard and all of a sudden this guard acquires several payments. She made several deposits. One of them was $5,000 just ten days before he died,” Rogan said. “And then the cameras are cut. Okay? And then they mysteriously don’t pay attention to the cell of one of the most important defendants of any case, any gigantic public case involving enormously famous public figures, and then this guy hangs himself while he’s on suicide watch?”
Shellenberger interrupted to assert Epstein had attempted suicide prior to his death.
“I understand, but why are you not letting me finish what I’m saying? Because that alone is weird,” Rogan said. “That alone is weird that the cameras are cut. That there’s no video of it. The whole thing is weird. You don’t think it’s weird? You don’t think it’s weird that he just finds a way to hang himself in this cage?”
“I had that same story. I was like, the cameras are cut. The security guards are asleep. All those things are true. It’s also true that the cameras went out a long time before that night,” Shellenberger replied. “It didn’t just go out that night before. Security guards fall asleep at night all the time. He attempted suicide, I believe, 18 days before.”
Rogan noted that Epstein had reportedly claimed that he believed his cellmate attacked him 18 days prior to his death. He added that Epstein’s cellmate was a former cop who was accused of four murders.
“You can make a case either way is my point. You can make the case that he was murdered,” Shellenberger said. “You can make the case he was suicidal.”
Rogan agreed, but suggested that there was adequate “circumstantial evidence” to indicate homicide was more likely.
Dr. Michael Baden, a forensic pathologist Epstein’s brother hired, suggested on “Fox & Friends” in October 2019 that the autopsy indicated the deceased sex offender more likely died by homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging.
Moreover, former FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino said on “Fox & Friends” in May 2025 that “clear as day” footage the DOJ would release of Epstein’s final night in jail would confirm that he committed suicide. However, CBS News’ analysis of the video published in July 2025 found that it did not offer an unobstructed perspective of the entrance to Epstein’s cell block.
The digital clock in the footage the DOJ released also skipped from 11:58:58 p.m. to 12:00 a.m.
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