Jimmie Johnson, Tony Kanaan Q&A: Friends on Running NASCAR, INDYCAR Teams

Tony Kanaan and Jimmie Johnson were INDYCAR teammates for two years at Chip Ganassi Racing, competing in the twilight of their storied racing careers. Just three years later, both were running race teams, the 51-year-old Kanaan as the team principal of Arrow McLaren in INDYCAR and the 50-year-old Johnson as the controlling owner of Legacy Motor Club in NASCAR. Both of them could have abandoned the sport and lived good lives. Johnson won seven Cup titles and 83 races in his Cup career. Kanaan won 17 INDYCAR races, one championship and an Indianapolis 500. Between them, they have 43 years of racing full time at top levels — Kanaan ran full-time for 22 seasons, Johnson for 21. When Johnson first went to INDYCAR, he drove all but the four oval races, which Kanaan got in the Ganassi car as they shared the ride. The two drivers turned team executives sat down with me to talk about their new roles, lives and new pressures for what are still growing organizations. Bob Pockrass: Jimmie, do you feel like you’re a better owner than a driver, and is Tony a better executive than a driver? Jimmie Johnson: No. Time will tell for sure. I am seeing a lot of parallels that made me a good driver will make me a good owner. But I'm 12 months into truly having control over the company, and still at that point, I have my training wheels on and made sure that I have [team CEO] Cal Wells around and the layers of experience to really help me evolve. I've always been afraid of exiting the race car and thinking I could be a businessman — and then just crashing and burning. So that's just been a fear I've had all along, and I just want to make sure I get it right. But for both of you when you were racers, did you have the fear of crashing and not literally crashing and burning, but did you have more confidence as a race-car driver before going into the roles you have now? Tony Kanaan: It's different, Bob. Johnson: Obviously, you had less to lose. Kanaan: Exactly. I was responsible for myself, and I don't know 10 guys, but really myself — keeping my job, doing what my goals were. Now I have a whole company with people with families and you making a decision. You crash the car, they will fix it, you go to the next race. Here, you make a bad decision, you take the team down, you know what I mean? That’s a huge responsibility. You feel much more responsibility now than even though pretty much their livelihood was somewhat dependent on your results, right? Kanaan: Yes. Johnson: But they would move you out of the seat. Kanaan: Correct. Exactly. Johnson: You can get changed out. So there was that always looming. Yes, you were part of the team but ... Kanaan: You’d be replaced. So do you feel more pressure now? What's the difference between the pressure now having over 100 people that you somewhat control their livelihood versus the pressure of racing and competing? Kanaan: It's different. It’s pressure, but it's a completely different way. The pressure of driving was intense. It depends a lot on my mental, physical condition, and then you had to go out and perform no matter what. The performance, you’re being judged every weekend for that Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Johnson: You're so in your own head. Kanaan: Correct Johnson: Everything is your ... Kanaan: It's you, you, you and you look at like something, it's always the car. Never you. You blame it on the equipment. And the pressure here is ... I’ve been having a hard time explaining that is different. I think it's easier for some — which doesn't go to what I just said — easier to be in this position because of the anxiety or being nervous before you jump in the race car. Jimmie will relate to it 100 percent but, no offense, none of you [non-driver] guys probably know that. You’re sitting in the green room before the Indy 500. Before the race starts tomorrow, I'll be fine talking to you. I've done my part, but then [McLaren CEO] Zak [Brown] talked to me this week and says, "Where are we?" I'm like, "We’re ready, but I don't know." You know what I mean? I think the best way to describe is when I came to race weekends, it depended a lot of my performance on the spot. Those two to three hours you’ve got to perform? Kanaan: Minimal mistakes. Now, when I get to the racetrack, my action, my job, is done. The 12-13, hours a day that we put in the race shop, getting the people — that's where it counts. When we when I come here [Kanaan wipes his hands together]. Johnson: I don't know if I've got it fully thought in my head, but as the driver, you're the tip of the spear. I don't want to use top of the pyramid because that's just unfair. But you're at the pointy end, and it's a small little group responsible for that pointy end. That's where the driver lives. And then where we are now is down here at the base of it, and all those layers and departments, you're looking for harmony, you're trying to give them tools they need, the resources they need. And so you're so caught up in that. And it’s all working to that little group, but your time is elsewhere. There's fewer excuses in your current role, right? Johnson: There's more departments. I got more excuses. Kanaan: He owns a team. I've got to answer to Zak. And, like, yesterday [after practice], Zak's like, "What happened?" I'm like, "Well ..." And there is always a situation. The thing is, like he said, as a driver, you are controlling your group of guys. And you don't worry about the other cars, Johnson: It’s like we’re at home base managing special forces. Kanaan: So [my driver] Nolan [Siegel], he had a problem, so I need to go [and help]. And then Christian [Lundgaard] needs something. So you're looking [to help]. It’s a lot more ... Johnson: Sim correlation, damper program [are your concerns]. In 2022, when you were teammates, for each of you, did you ever think that he would be running a race team like that in this type of position? Johnson: We were conspiring how we can keep holding a steering wheel. We weren't conspiring how we were going [to run things]. Kanaan: Jimmie and I were thinking how are we going to keep it fit with less gray hair, so people don't think we're old — so we can keep making money in what we know what to do because it was exactly what he said. We did speak about it: What the [expletive] are we going to do after this? Are we going to ruin everything that we built? I don't think any of us expected this, to answer your question. And if you had told us that, we probably would had laughed in your face. Would you have laughed if I told you Jimmie will be an owner of a team? Would you be like, "Yeah, he can do it." And if I told you [Jimmie], TK is going to be running McLaren's INDYCAR team, would you be like, "Yeah, he can do it." Or is this total surprise to both of you? Kanaan: I have no doubt that — and I still do, not because he's here, he's my friend — as successful as he was in his career, the obsession that he had to be the best, if he takes that mentality. If any athlete, you take that obsession of mentality, you're going to succeed. It's not about talent. Johnson: Same. And then I just add on, now being in this role, it's so much about managing people and personalities. And I think both of us in our driving careers, people wanted to work on our teams. They wanted to be around us. There was a community and a relationship that was there. And so I'm not surprised. I'm surprised because neither of us, it was ever on our radar. And then now that we're in these roles, with people, not afraid to be honest, and that's what this role requires. Kanaan: We have very uncomfortable conversations. Eric [Cowdin] was just here. He was my engineer for 30 years, my entire career and then with Jimmie. I just had 40 minutes ago. I sat down with him, I'm like, "What are we doing?" And we had a tough one. He's like, "I'm on it. I've been up since 3 in the morning. I'll take care of it." I said, "Well, I bet you will, that’s why I put you here." But then he was here giving me the biggest compliment [about my leadership]. Because that's what you have to have. And I think if you look at a successful team, Jimmie's been in an organization before that, no matter what was very well controlled [at Hendrick]. We all have problems, issues. A lot of you guys will never know. But having people wanting to work for you, especially, I can only talk about this sport because that's what I've done, it's 80 percent — I'll take a guy that wants to work for me that has less talent than the best guy out there. Jimmie worked for Mr. Milk-and-Cookies [Rick Hendrick] in how he did it. I don’t think Chip [Ganassi] ever did that? Kanaan: But you know what? I give Chip all the credit I should give. Do I think Chip has the best psychology approach? No. At all. But it works with the people that they're there. So that is the environment that they're in. And you can tell that he has probably 10, almost 20 people that have been there for [decades]. Johnson: When you're in the family with Chip and working there, you see a totally different side of Chip. When you hire the people who fit your mentality, then you're good? Kanaan: I tell my people I need to know where you are, and you're going to know where I'm at at all times. If I'm not happy, you're going to know. So you're not going to wonder. And likewise. [Chip’s] way of leadership, it's his way. People are still there. Nobody quit. Do I like that? I quit. That is not us. Then you look at Jimmie and I and you can argue that, is this leadership strong enough? It is. We had a lot of fun, which I think is a big part of it. When you win, you have a lot more. But we're decent to the people, and you have people that will do anything for us. You’ve also had to have the hard conversations and let people go? Kanaan: You need to be able to separate. I always tell people, we're going to talk about work. At 5 o'clock, if we're going to go out to dinner, you have to be able to separate it. If you can't, I need to know. You might need more time than me to heal. But otherwise it doesn't fit because you're not going to fit. When personalities clash, you have to understand. And I think the biggest challenge I have is to have the people that don't agree with that, but they are very talented, how can I still keep them and fit them to the environment? Johnson: It comes down to you’re living it every day. Kanaan: It's a lot of talk and you have to be there. Johnson: You pick up the unspoken tension. You see things. There's a big part of living it, and that's been part of my journey. Being back full-time and having control of our company now. When I was partners with Maury [Gallagher], Maury had control, and he was going to run it the way that he believed and he should — he was the majority owner. And it's been a big part of my journey is to get in, be there, live it, so that you can really feel the energy in those unspoken words. Kanaan: I think that it's a very similar challenge that we’ve got. We both got into organizations that they were established before. And then, unfortunately, when you do that, as hard as it can be because I had to make some changes that I had to send some talented people away. I was the [expletive]. Johnson: Luckily, I have Cal. Kanaan: Jimmie is Zak. I was the guy [telling people]. You have to be confident. My favorite thing to do, which I had to start and it works, someone would come to and say, "Tony, Jimmy [did this]." And I go, "Hold on a sec. Jimmy come here, you know what he just said? ... We’re going to sort it out today." Johnson: It’s like parenting. Kanaan: Bring them together, they blame each other, and then you make a decision. I became a better father for sure.