How much trouble is Kristi Noem in?

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Even if you don’t follow politics closely, you probably know a few things about Kristi Noem. She’s the one that some critics have dubbed “ICE Barbie.” Also, unforgivably: the one who shot her dog.

Noem, most importantly, is the secretary of Donald Trump’s embattled and emboldened Department of Homeland Security, and is thus tasked with overseeing the immigration crackdown that’s brought chaos to Minneapolis and other cities. Since that campaign claimed the life of a second US citizen last weekend, many lawmakers — including some Republicans — have begun calling for Noem’s ouster. 

Whether that will actually happen — and whether it would represent any real rebuke or de-escalation of Trump’s unchecked deportation campaign — is anybody’s guess. But if you want to understand Kristi Noem or the broader palace intrigue at Homeland Security, Ben Terris is a good guy to ask. Terris, the Washington correspondent for New York magazine, published a witty, wild, revelatory profile of Noem last September. So in today’s edition, he answers the question: Whither Kristi Noem (…and her wider circus)?

Hey Ben! I wanted to talk to you now because it feels like we’re potentially reaching a turning point in Trump’s immigration enforcement campaign. 

Since the start of his second term, DHS bulked up, adopted more aggressive tactics and launched these militarized operations in a number of US cities. But even within the administration and the Republican party, it seems like there may be some appetite for some kind of drawdown following the shooting death of Alex Pretti. Can you tell me a little about how we got here? Like, who are the people driving this train?

The first thing to remember about how we got here has to be that last summer Congress passed a bill with just an absolute ton of money for DHS, and specifically money for deportations. Trump has always made deportations a top priority, and suddenly there was funding to build up an entire army to make it happen. 

It wasn’t exactly an elite army, though: They were throwing $50,000 bonuses to try and fill their ranks as quickly as possible. And the generals running the show weren’t exactly elite either. 

Kristi Noem, the former governor of South Dakota, has been the head of DHS in part because she asked for the job, and in part because she is, in Trump’s opinion, “good on TV.” And her second-in-command is Trump’s former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. 

Lewandowski isn’t technically an employee of DHS — he’s one of those “Special Government Employees” (like Elon Musk once was), a role that he’s only supposed to serve in for a finite amount of time. He is also strongly rumored to be romantically involved with Noem. It’s a mess. 

How has the culture at DHS changed under Noem and Lewandowski? What is their management style like?

Like a lot of successful politicians in the Trump era, Noem is someone without much of an ideological backbone. She was described to me by many of her colleagues as only doing what’s best for Kristi Noem. As the head of DHS, that’s basically meant being as hardline on immigration as she can be. 

There’s a sense that the actual person running the show on this issue is Stephen Miller, Trump’s deputy chief of staff and perhaps the most zealous anti-immigrant aide in the president’s orbit. This has meant that Noem’s job is essentially to try and hit the deportation numbers that Miller bangs on about, and to sell the president’s agenda on TV.

As for her management style, in some ways she can be almost Trumpy: often swayed by the last person to have her ear, willing to make decisions based on ambition, and seemingly unconcerned about making enemies. 

Reading your piece from September, I was really struck by how many of Noem’s former colleagues — many of them South Dakota Republicans — were eager to badmouth her. Often on the record! What do you make of that?

I was a little surprised when people from her past were willing to trash her on the record. It’s not a very common thing in politics today to do that, and most of them joked about how they would probably be sent to Alligator Alcatraz for speaking out. 

But most of the on-the-record folks are out in South Dakota, living their lives out there, unconnected from the goings-on in Washington — which I think gave them some cover. Plus, she really pissed a lot of people off, so I had plenty of potential sources to call. 

In the past several days, Trump has softened some of his rhetoric around Minneapolis and sent his border czar, Tom Homan, to “de-escalate” the situation there. There’s almost a sense that Homan is the adult in the room now. Does he seem like a moderating force to you?

It didn’t take long into my reporting to learn that there are two major camps in Trump’s administration dealing with immigration. There’s Noem/Lewandowski’s camp, and there’s Tom Homan’s. And these two camps are always at war with one another. 

I would say that many people do see Homan as more of an adult in the room. He’s got much more experience on this issue, and he doesn’t dress up and go on deportation raids with a camera crew in tow. 

He’s not without drama, obviously. There’s the issue of the $50,000 bribe. Also, it’s important to remember that he’s not actually a moderate when it comes to immigration. He was a driving force behind the family separation policy in Trump’s first term.  

Democrats are calling on Trump to fire Noem and have threatened to impeach her. I’m sort of curious, given your reporting on the culture at DHS and the cabal of decisionmakers there, what you think that would accomplish (if anything?) in terms of hemming in some of the agency’s recent missteps and abuses.

Even back when I was reporting on Noem last fall, there was an idea that she was on “thin ice” and that she could lose her job. I believed then, and I believe now, that it’s totally possible! 

But part of me also wonders if all the calls from Democrats et al for an impeachment or a firing, might only make Trump more likely to keep her around for a while. He doesn’t like giving in to pressure, and he doesn’t like admitting that his administration has fucked up in any way. 

We are talking about your New York cover story from September, but you actually just published another big piece that tries to nail down what exactly is going on with Trump’s health.

I don’t want to ruin the ending for readers by asking about your overall conclusions. But let’s just talk about the bruise on Trump’s hand. What did Trump tell you that was from — and honestly, did you believe him?

Trump — and his doctors who joined us in the Oval Office for my interview — swear that the bruising on his hands comes from a combination of daily aspirin use and vigorous hand shaking. Do I believe that’s true? I don’t know! Kind of? 

Trump told me that he takes way over the recommended daily amount of aspirin, and that his doctors have basically pleaded with him to cut back. But he says he wants “thin blood” to avoid any heart problems, and the aspirin seems to be doing that for him. Trump refusing to change up his routine despite his doctors’ insistence? That sounds pretty Trumpy to me.