Bob the Drag Queen Doesn’t Play About Harriet Tubman
What if the Underground Railroad’s most famous conductor dropped an album? Harriet Tubman: Live in Concert, out March 25, is a 240-page answer to a question Bob the Drag Queen can’t stop thinking about; the debut author, who uses he/him and she/her pronouns, is already working on a stage adaptation. Longtime fans have been hearing about the Drag Race winner and Traitor’s self-described obsession with Harriet Tubman for years. “I’ve listened to multiple autobiographies. Any movie or TV show that she’s been depicted in, I’ve seen it,” says Bob, who kicks off a five-stop book tour at the Strand in New York today. “I just find her story to be one of the most interesting stories in the world, of all time. I really do think she’s a superhero.” (And thanks to a viral Ziwe clip, we already know he thinks Tubman could send “that twink” Tom Holland’s Spider-Man to a closed-casket funeral.)
In Bob’s fictional universe, historical figures appear in modern times doing modern things; Bob wants his next book to be about Jesus Christ running for president. Tubman plans to continue her abolitionist work by reaching the masses with a hip-hop album that reflects on freedom, so she enlists the help of Darnell, a Black gay Grammy-winning producer who has taken a step back from the industry. (In real life, Bob collaborated with producer and Madonna music director Kevin Antunes, whom he met while touring with Madame X, for the two songs included in the audiobook.)
Harriet Tubman: Live in Concert is punctuated with historical facts and jolts of Bob’s signature humor, including lines about “Weezy F. Tubman” and assuming strangers are “straight until proven superior.” But it’s also an emotional exploration of religion, external and internalized homophobia, the pressure of progressing Black liberation, and the importance of revisiting the past. “We gotta look at the good, the bad, and the ugly. John Brown, Harriet Tubman, W.E.B. Du Bois, Hitler, our current president, the Reagan presidency, Stalin,” Bob says. “What happened, and how do you feel about the outcome? Would you want to live through that time? A lot of us ask ourselves, What would I have done in Nazi Germany? We might not have to ask because we’re probably gonna find out really soon.”
It took you four years to finish this book. How did it feel at this moment in time to be working on a story that underscores the importance of learning about history?
When I started this book, Donald Trump was the president. When I finished it, he was not the president. And when the book’s being published, he is the president again. We’ve gone through quite a litany of political experiences. I’ve always said that this current season of the presidency — if I would have written this as a TV show in the ’90s, I feel like the producers would have got back to me and said, “Come on, no one’s going to believe this.” Obviously, if we don’t learn from the past, we’re doomed to repeat it. But unfortunately, sometimes you learn from the past and you still repeat it.
In the book, Harriet Tubman emphasizes that the struggle for freedom is for the next generation, not yourself. Darnell says that resonates with him even more, being both Black and queer. Do you deal with the same sense of guilt and duty that he describes feeling due to those intersectional identities?
I was hosting a TikTok Live one time, and there was this one trans girl from Philly. I don’t remember her name, but I will never forget this day. A bunch of trans women were in there all talking, and they were being like, “Well, you have to fight.” And she goes, “I don’t want to. I don’t want to fight, and I want to reap all the benefits. I want to get all the good stuff, and I don’t want to do anything to work for it.” And some of the other ladies in there were like, “You know what? That’s fair.” Are you fighting for people who you think deserve it, or are you fighting for everyone in the demographic you’re fighting for? Everyone can’t take it to the streets. That’s not everyone’s path in life. I’m a loudmouth. I’m in the streets. But if you don’t want to go there, I’m still fighting for you, too. When I got arrested for marriage equality, I wasn’t like, “And gay Republicans don’t get it!” When you fight for trans rights, you’re not just fighting for Laverne Cox and Peppermint and Ts Madison, you’re also fighting for Caitlyn Jenner. I hate to say it, but you are — even if Caitlyn Jenner is fighting the opposite fight.
You did a focus group for this book with your Patreon. Why was that important to you?
While I want my book to be fun, I still want it to be reverent. It’s not a roast of Harriet Tubman; it’s an honoring of Harriet Tubman. So it was important for me to get a lot of Black eyes on this book besides my own, especially Black women who love to read.
Did you get any feedback that changed the final draft?
No, but I got some feedback that changed the play that is still being written. I created some characters for the book that didn’t fit into the play, but they were like, you cannot get rid of this character. So it actually changed the entire structure.
Originally, the play was going to just be that you’re at a concert with Harriet Tubman. It could change again, but right now, it’s more about the writing of the album. So think Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom and less Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
Have you thought of a dream cast for the play?
Ba-byyyy, I have thought about this entire cast. Clearly, I’m Darnell. I’m too embarrassed to say out loud who else I want! They’re probably too famous. Maybe once we pick up some steam and then I’m a New York Times best seller. Maybe I get a Pulitzer! I probably won’t get a Pulitzer. But what if I did? I mean, I have a Peabody; I can get a Pulitzer. Then maybe I’ll feel brave enough to say out loud who I want to do it.
Well, you’ve already thrown at least one name out there. You said Doechii.
I knowww. Wait, did I say that out loud? Where did you hear that?
I was watching one of your lives.
Imagine Doechii as Harriet Tubman. I gotta tell you, Jennifer, I write a lot of music, and this is legit the best music I’ve ever written in my life. I’m being so honest. When people hear it, I hope they love it as much as I’m proud of it. To hear Doechii with these lyrics would just be … my God, I would ascend to Heaven, and I don’t even believe in Heaven.
Speaking of Doechii, did you see that toward the end of last year, there was discourse online —
Harriet Tubman rap!
Yeah, people were using that phrase to criticize her. And then other people said, hey, that comparison is racist and colorist because the content and sound of her music is not giving Harriet Tubman. I wondered how you felt about all of that, as someone who is —
Actually writing Harriet Tubman music.
Exactly.
Yeah, I was like, what’s wrong with Harriet Tubman music? My dream is to make Harriet Tubman music. There are two original songs included in the audiobook, and one day Queen of the Underground will be a fully realized album. And when it is, I can’t wait to release my Harriet Tubman music to the world. But also, this is obviously a criticism people are gonna be giving this woman because she is a Black woman. Sometimes, if it’s too pro-Black, people are just like, What are you doing? No one’s ever accused Eminem of writing George Washington music.
In the book, Darnell has his own assumptions about how Harriet’s music would sound. He feels her album would be more “serious” and is surprised and a little embarrassed that she has come to him after hearing his song “Bad Bitch Boot Camp.”
Well, this is a lot of my own personal shame that I bring into the world. This was inspired by an episode of We’re Here that we filmed in Selma, Alabama, where I was talking to actual foot soldiers who were on the Edmund Pettus Bridge during Bloody Sunday. I was talking to them and simultaneously embarrassed because a week ago, I was telling dick-sucking jokes. And here I am sitting with civil-rights activists who were actively fighting. I’m directly impacted by their bravery and their heroism. But they fought so that I could tell my dick-sucking jokes, you know what I mean? Harriet Tubman fought for the right to make “Bad Bitch Boot Camp,” just like she fought for the right to make The Color Purple.
How did you approach coming up with Harriet’s speaking and performing voice?
Harriet’s voice has been sanitized. There were times where she would tell her story and then they would just write it in a way that was more palatable. Famously, “Ain’t I a woman?” was never said. She actually spoke perfect English, but the people who were writing it were like, “It’ll reach more people if you just say ‘Ain’t I a woman?’” Was it effective? Obviously. Was it harmful? Obviously. The truth is we don’t know what Harriet Tubman said because she never wrote it down herself. It was all secondhand.
Did you have a way you wanted her to sound or feel, just based on how you think of her?
I wanted her to feel strong and be able to have mistakes. I just wanted to be able to humanize her as much as possible.
Was recording the audiobook emotional for you?
Oh my God, it was. There’s a take out there somewhere where I couldn’t even get through the last chapter, I was just bawling so hard. I had to go back and redo it. I don’t want to spoil it for anyone, but that last scene is really, really emotional for me.
You were starting to do book promo as your season of The Traitors aired. What’s it like to have these very different types of content overlapping?
It’s really exciting. It’s hectic, for sure, but I thrive in chaos, as you all saw on The Traitors. Well, I didn’t thrive that long. I was only in four episodes.
Which show deserves the Emmy this year, Traitors or Drag Race?
I mean, I wasn’t on this season of Drag Race, so I would vote for The Traitors. It’s a show that really just gets you so emotional, so fired up. They’re so different. Drag Race requires a lot more tangible talent. And by that, I mean can you sew, can you sing, can you dance, can you act? Traitors is like, can you manipulate, can you deceive, can you gaslight, can you girlboss, can you gatekeep?
You don’t think there’s a little bit of that on Drag Race sometimes?
On All-Stars, maybe. But on my season, I was able to do it with just raw talent. [Smiles.]
This interview is coming out closer to the season-17 finale. What’s your message to the next Drag Race winner?
Listen, girl. There are so many of us. There are over 600 contestants worldwide on RuPaul’s Drag Race, and over 200 just here in the States alone — the competition is stiffer than a day-old wig left at the bottom of a suitcase. You have to carve a path for yourself. That’s why I didn’t write a book about myself, because I would never read that book. Create content that you would wanna enjoy.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
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